BM Opinion: Is it the veil?
Posted by bikyamasr on 04/07/2009
Is it the veil?
Bikya Masr
4 July 2009
On Wednesday, 32-year-old Egyptian national Marwa Al Sherbini was stabbed to death in Dresden, Germany, after her assailant was fined for hate speech. The incident has been nearly forgotten by mainstream Western media and has created an outcry of anger in the Middle East. Rightfully so. Sherbini was a woman who had been traveling with her husband, who had been on scholarship to study Genetics in Germany, and has been the most recent victim of Europe’s growing xenophobia.
After Bikya Masr detailed the murder on Friday morning – we were the first English outlet to report the killing – a number of people living in Germany began pouring comments our way. To our surprise, they questioned why the report stated Sherbini was veiled. The question then becomes, is the veil important?
We believe it is vitally important in this instance. While the Associated Press report fails to mention the case, instead relying on German prosecutor’s comments about how this is a one-time incident and the man “did not belong to any far right organization” we feel that it is precisely because she was wearing the veil, in Europe, that sparked the initial hate crime that eventually led to her horrific murder.
Europe is in the midst of an ongoing debate over whether to ban the veil. France has been the most outspoken against this clothing choice, with President Nicolas Sarkozy calling for the complete ban of the niqab, arguing it is “backwards” and forced upon women. In Germany, this is a very prominent sentiment as well, a number of observers have told Bikya Masr. They said that German women believe the veil is a sign of male dominance and cannot see that women would choose to wear it on their own accord.
So, is it the veil? Of course it is. If Sherbini had not been wearing the veil, she would have been loved by Europeans who would have seen her as an example of a Muslim woman who has “thrown off the yoke” of that “backwards” society in the Middle East. This way of thinking is abhorrent, because it fails to understand that for many Muslim women, the veil is a choice. Many put it on and many take it off, or simply don’t wear it, as they choose.
To argue that the veil is a means for men to dominate women may have some clout within extremely conservative families, in Saudi Arabia or Iran, but for the vast majority of women who don the veil, it is their choice. And a choice that should be respected. For those Europeans who continue to fight against the veil, they are fighting against the freedoms they so dearly hold true.
For Sherbini, her decision to wear the veil ultimately cost her everything. We, as a global community must fight against people who continue to push women to wear one thing versus another. Europeans must look inward and understand that the ongoing xenophobia against Muslims in their countries is pushing hatred to the street, as evidenced by Sherbini’s case. It is high time that the world start to realize that by forcing people to wear the “appropriate” attire of soceity, they are creating a society based on hatred and fear.
The murder of Sherbini was horrific and the West must understand what they are doing: pushing intolerance. It won’t work. And in the end, this debate will ultimately force Europe more right and alienate a group of people that have for a long time looked to the continent with hope. Why kill that hope?
It was the veil, unfotuntately. European feminists should stand with Sherbini in protest of these acts of violence and force their governments to see reason instead of bigotry.
BM
Sara said
What you are saying comes from one view point, you are not looking at if from the perspective of women (and men) in Europe.
To begin with, look at the statement you made “It is high time that the world start to realize that by forcing people to wear the “appropriate” attire of soceity, they are creating a society based on hatred and fear.” In many Islamic countries it is not possible for foreign women or local women to dress as they want, society won’t let them. In Saudi, can a foreign woman walk down the street with no scarf and a short sleeved shirt or dress, a pair of shorts? No she can’t, nor can a local Saudi woman if she wants to. They’d be be thrown in jail, or worse, and we know that 100% of Saudi woman do no want to cover up, we see them uncovered in Europe.
Taking that to Europe, we see that the more covering up that is done in a country the less option women have to choose what to wear or whether to cover up or not and the lack of women’s rights. Women can’t even drive in Saudi or have a friend who is a boy (not a boyfriend, just a friend). First by peer pressure in places such as Egypt, then by law in places like Saudi women’s rights are removed, if they ever existed, as more women cover up. European women fought hard for the right to be treated as equals and not be subjugated and thus they cannot condone women wearing the niqab nor are they comfortable with a society that enforces a dress code on women.
Europeans are not telling people in Islamic countries to change the way they dress there nor are they starting court cases in Saudi so that they (the European woman) can wear a dress and no scarf in public in Saudi. As visitors to Islamic countries are expected to be mindful of local dress and what is acceptable it would seem reasonable to expect visitors to non Islamic countries to be mindful of local dress and customs and what is acceptable. In Europe and North America, women, and men, find the niqab unacceptable. It is viewed as offensive and repressive as it represents a loss of rights for women, even the basic right of being able to choose what to wear. How could a European woman, never mind a feminist, accept this.
It extremely sad to see hear what happened to Marwa Al Sherbini. There are crazy people everywhere and unfortunately they hurt people, for many different reasons. Whatever the reason though, this behaviour is not acceptable or tolerated in Europe. You should not take the actions of a lone madman and confuse them with rational discussion regarding the acceptability of wearing niqab.
bikyamasr said
I agree on a certain level with you here, except that I would not count Saudi and Iran as being examples of freedom that Europe aspires to. That is the point here. We are not discussing an authoritative society such as Saudi, instead we are discussing a society that allegedly is full of freedom to choose. That is the crux of the matter. If Europeans are not allowing Muslim women to veil, then are they better than Saudi who forces women to veil? This question must be asked.
Sara said
Europeans aren’t saying no to the the higab or the covering of arms or legs – they are drawing the line at covering everything but the eyes. I think most people would agree that that’s pretty tolerant. Especially considering that most Europeans find even the higab offensive because of all that it represents. Even in France, Moslem women are feeling peer pressure to wear the higab. Europeans want to protect their rights. There is no country in the world where women cover up and have equal rights – except Europe or N America.
In Europe and N America those that cover up are attempting to impose their ‘beliefs’ (remember the niqab is actually a wahabi thing, not a moslem thing) on the countries and change what is acceptable in those countries. This cannot be tolerated as it leads to a loss of women’s rights. There is no example of women’s rights increasing due to covering up. The reason that women in Europe and N America have more rights is because they are free to choose.
Once a woman ‘chooses’ to cover up she gives up rights as the beliefs that advocate covering up do not believe in equal women’s right, even if society as a whole around them does. In Europe and N America, choosing to wear the niqab is therefore considered choosing to lose women’s rights. Therefore, in order to protect the rights of women as a whole a discussion is underway about drawing a line between covering the full face and the higab.
If those that wear the niqab find it so important that they can cover their face and are happy to lose their rights, perhaps they should go somewhere where this is acceptable, like Saudi or Iran.
hksfdhfdj said
u seem to be more in grief about women rights than u r about a poor woman who was killed as a result of “her *right to practice her religion”, hellooooo?
oh by the way.. what a terrible tragedy isnt it,
good lord!
whether saudi and iran practice oppression or not (and they should not) is wayyyy off topic here,
u say a dress code is not tolerable in this day and age no? you are being very naive in this sense because saying that all women should dress as westerns ”i.e follow mainstream fashion” means that they are (one way or another) following a dress code,, a dress code introduced by fashion designers and is imposed on many women ‘indirectly’ but it just so happens that some women out there are not comfortable with it,, just as any woman would be uncomfortable with a viel,, there are two sides of every coin..normal? try to accept the facts for a change
and if you think that people in africa and asia and the whole world should dress as americans then the way i see it ..that is oppression because dress is not just cloths, they are a representation of culture identity intellect charachter and so on and if religion is part of someone’s personality then where is the problem if he shows it? do people not still wear a cross after the so many years people worked really hard to seperate church from state? are nuns ruining all these years of hard work? arent they just human beings who are practicing their beliefs, and the nun outfit is nothing but a symptom of all that?
dont u think it would be a little mean if someone kills a nun for the same reason? and then someone comes out and highlights the problem with the nun outfit, and forgets all about the fanatic who killed her? look even if she wore a chicken on her head, if someone commits a crime against her that would be the problem we shouldnt go analyzing the chicken on her head ???????????????? we should be saying death to the nazi,
please explain to me, why dont nuns take it off too? and forget about the dress code? jews women forget about shietal? if women calling out to women rights then they should at least start off by respecting ALL women rights,,, including those who feel liberated through modesty, i’m sorry but not all people are the same try to accept that, feminism does not call out to freedom of all women, it calls out for women to forget their duties and walk around calling for rights just because they r women,, femenism has served women yes,,, but there is an updated version of feminism which should exist, and that which includes all women not just a stereotype of a femenist, a muslim woman who chooses to wear a headscarf should be backed up by femenists.
excuse me but we see women in africa, of certain tribes, who walk around topless, and that is normal for them, how come we dont see the western woman in the screen without her top on??? sorry but western women dont wear a headscarf or a viel when they visit muslim countires and that is a fact, muslim women shouldnt have to feel threatened by such nazi behaviour if she so happens to decides she is gona keep her own identity and own culture on when in a european country and spare us the do as the romans bullshit, its the europeans who have to work out their dogma and monoculture problems not vice versa
also stop using iran and saudi as examples because if u do maths this is two,,, muslim countries outnumber this and nowhere else would u find dress code imposed on women by the goverment,,
whether a woman wears a viel or not is her concern,,, i think others if with or against should just shuut up about it and let others be,,, i mean what kind of world would we be living in if everyone is the same,, and dressed the same,,, good luck trying to turn the world into ur version of the truth
pfffft they dont understand ANYTHINGGGGGG,
Sara said
I guess it all comes down to a simple choice. Which is more important? The right to fully cover your face or all women’s rights. In Europe, the ‘right’ to cover your full face is not considered nearly as important as women’s rights collectively – besides which, large sunglasses that hide a lot of the face (and the all important eyes) are quite trendy at the moment.
Su said
Personally I would very much like every women to be free to choose what to wear when in public and it seems to me that to veil or not is part of that choice. I see & understand the argument that some of the women who are veiled are not veiled through their own choice, but I don’t see that banning the veil is any kind of answer, it’s just restricting freedom to choose even more. You can’t make someone ‘free’ by banning their freedom to choose.
Fighting a lack of freedom by oppressing another freedom doesn’t make much sense (imho). Surely the most sensible and consistent approach should be by trying to give people a *real* choice and make sure that anyone who chooses to veil, chooses to do so of their own free will. I realise that this means working to change attitudes of some ultra-conservative factions who impose their views on women but equally we must stand up for the rights of every woman who chooses and wants to wear the hijab or anything else. I realise how hard it will be and it will be a lot harder than simply banning something, but that is exactly what we must do if we wish to be able to claim that we’re fighting for someone’s freedom to choose.
hksfdhfdj said
ohhhhh and stop nagging about saudi and iran because the bann of the headscarf in turkey and france would be classified as oppression too,,
u see it as oppression only when it says put scarf on but when it says take it off its ok?
either way they r telling women what and what not to wear,
Ammar said
Sara
why is ok for Christian nuns to cover their heads? but it is not ok for women of other religions to exercise similar trends
Sara said
You crack me up. Please read things a bit closer before jumping to replying. The first thing is no one is arguing to ban the higab (covering the head), just the niqab (covering the face). As for nuns, they don’t cover their faces which is what a niqab does. Not to forget as well that nuns are actually part of the church. If women priests/mullahs wanted to wear the niqab I don’t think people in Europe would object. Oh, I forgot, moslem women don’t have the right to be priests/mullahs.
As for giving up some rights for the sake of other right, that is exactly what society is about. By definition, in order to protect certain rights society has to curtail other rights. Each society must decide what rights are more important to them and makes their rules accordingly. In each debate, one group’s opinions out number another’s and they become the rule. If views change in future, the debate is held again.
For example, in the US some people believe it is their right to carry guns. In the UK there is no question about this, it is not believed that people are allowed to have guns – except farmers who need them or in highly regulated environment. The argument against gun ownership in the US and why it is illegal in the UK is the same – it is felt that the loss of choice by the individual in this case is worth it as it protects others. Is this oppression?
Life is a trade off. Why can’t I drive 120 mph, why can’t I walk down the street with no clothes on, why can’t I open a bank by hanging a sign in front of my house – because there are rules and laws that we have collectively agreed to protect our society as whole.
Not everyone agrees with each law but as opposed to saying they have lost their rights or been oppressed they understand that in an open society each individual’s choice cannot always be protected and what needs to be protected is the collective choice – one that is arrived/agreed with/voted on by the society as a whole. This is not oppression, this is democracy, freedom of choice, freedom of change, freedom of debate, freedom to change ones mind (or government) peacefully. Something sorely lacking in the Middle East.
Europe and N America are not advocating how people in other countries should dress nor how people in Europe and N America should dress. They are debating the covering up of the face, the niqab, in Europe. That is a choice for European society to make, not people from other countries. Most people in European society do not like what the niqab represents therefore they are doing what democratically run countries with equal rights can do, they are having an open discussion about it. The niqab is not part of European society and most people do not see it has having a place in European society.
As I said earlier, if women want to wear higab, fine. If they want to wear a niqab they should do so where it is acceptable. It is not acceptable in Europe.
Mohamed said
The Hidjab is technically banned my dear. You get thrown out of many jobs if you wear it. You lose your bread and butter if you wear it…It is you Sara that needs to stop hiding behind the niqab. Veiled women do see hell in Europe; I’m talking based on first hand experience. Not to mention the racist comments that they get every day. Covering up for that or denying it is as racist as doing it. In other words, you are promoting a racist agenda. Good for you liberated woman!
Su said
Re ‘It is not acceptable in Europe’
While I can’t speak for ‘Europe’, it’s plainly not the case in the UK. An Ipsos MORI poll in 2006 found that 77% either ‘agreed’ or ‘tended to agree’ that ‘Muslim women should have the right to wear a veil’ (note- this was in the context of ‘women *concealing their faces* in veils’), another MORI poll found that 75% of Londoners ’support the right of Muslims, and those of other faiths, to dress “in accordance with their religious beliefs’.
Islam doesn’t monopolise the oppression of women. I don’t recall many catholic priests; many monarchies discriminate against female sucession. Look how women are regularly objectified in the west today; why do women in the west still earn less money than men doing the same job?
It’s practically impossible to determine if a woman is wearing the veil out of choice or out of coercion. Does anyone really believe that because a percentage of the tiny minority of women who wear the veil do so against their will (and I don’t deny that this is so), this means the drastic step of denying it to all women, regardless of their personal choice?
Let’s not kid ourselves what this ‘discussion’ is really about.
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sara said
There is absolutely no question whether women have more rights in an Islamic country or in Europe. Women obviously do not have equal rights in any Islamic country and the more Islamic the country, the more women cover up, the less rights they have. Therefore, more covering up equals less women’s rights. Plain and simple.
Until such time as these Islamic countries can demonstrate that they are freer countries and women’s rights are better protected there than in Europe then they should not be pontificating to Europeans about freedom.
While there still may be inequalities in Europe, these are constantly being torn down which is the complete opposite situation to countries where the niqab is worn and where women’s rights are being eroded. More covering up equals less women’s rights, simple as that.
The other thing that the niqab does is create divisions in society. The women wearing the niqab do not mix with women from outside their ‘culture’ never mind men. Even for girls at a girl’s schools, girls who wear the higab do not mix with girls not from their culture. I know this as my daughters go to a girls school where some girls wear the higab – these girls do not mix with any girls outside ‘their’ culture. Why live in a culture you do not want to participate in? This creates divisions in the society.
While the initial response for free countries is to accept personal choices, a debate has now started because it is not a simple matter of whether women should be able to wear the niqab or not, it is a much bigger issue. It is about women’s rights and what our culture finds acceptable. We are open and even ‘accept’ things we find unacceptable, until it intrudes negatively on our culture. This is the case with the niqab now.
To repeat, if these women, and the men who promote the niqab, feel that their culture is so much better and if they are more comfortable in that culture, perhaps they should live in a country where their culture is the norm and not try to change European culture. After all, why are they living in Europe in the first place?
bikyamasr said
And this sums up the points people make. You are being so intolerant and forcing women to choose your way or the highway. Not good and breeds hate.
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bikyamasr said
obviously, they do not have equal rights…